Top producers of popular podcast “The CEO Diaries” say the program has raised standards for accuracy, an effort that began after a BBC investigation found the program shared misinformation that was harmful to health.
“We are more strict than we have been in the past,” “DOAC” executive producer Hans Sahni told Business Insider. “The standard is getting higher and higher every day.”
The BBC reported in late 2024 that 15 of 23 health-related incidents contained an average of 14 potentially harmful claims.
A core part of DOAC’s accuracy work is fact-checking its guests. The program began doing its own fact-checking about six months after the BBC report. The team uses Claude, Gemini and Consensus to run each episode through AI-assisted review. It also hired an independent MD. Researchers review their health status.
Sahni said the show is going through this process with every new episode and fact-checked 71 episodes with Doc. researcher. This equates to about 13% of the 540 long-form interviews in YouTube’s catalog. Sani said the team is exploring the idea of fact-checking previously released episodes.
DOAC’s fact-checking work shows that independent creators are acting more like traditional media companies when it comes to growing their audiences and attracting the interest of big advertisers, who want their ads to run in a brand-safe environment. Health and wellness have become a particularly fraught topic as many creators — including big stars like Joe Rogan — have been criticized for not speaking out against fringe views espoused by some guests.
As “DOAC” host Steven Bartlett’s megaphone continues to grow, he’s getting more attention. “DOAC” has approximately 21 million subscribers on YouTube and is regularly ranked as the top business podcast on Spotify. Bartlett recently told Fortune magazine that he expects the show to make $60 million this year through sponsorships and other sources.
In the “DOAC” video version on platforms such as YouTube and Spotify, when controversial or complex topics arise, the show will display a temporary pop-up window called “DOAC Community Notes” to refute the guest or provide additional background information. These are the result of internal team review or collaboration between researchers and show teams, who make the final decisions about what appears on screen.
The decision is based on the stakes of the claim, how strongly it is challenged in the scientific literature, and the context that is currently useful to the audience—with an emphasis on fewer, higher-value distractions.
The audio version does not have community annotations, but if the team determines that the information shared by a guest is inaccurate, the information will be removed. An extensive fact-checking research document is linked in the show notes.
The show’s guest booking and research teams have also become more rigorous in evaluating potential guests, Sani said.
Andrew Huberman has been criticized for promoting unapproved peptides. Photo by Jeff Spicer/Getty Images for smoov
The “DOAC” method has its limitations
Angie Drobnic Holan, director of the Poynter Project’s international fact-checking network, praised the show’s efforts to provide more accurate and relevant information.
“I’d like to see more podcast hosts provide information in context,” she said. “The larger the audience, the greater the responsibility, especially when there is a risk of harm.”
However, Horan sees some limitations to the “DOAC” approach.
She said viewers were unclear about the origins of “Community Notes” or who wrote the research brief. She questioned whether audiences would read them because they were long and dense and provided no clear points. Research documents are typically over 80 pages long. DOAC said it did not have reliable readership data but was considering obtaining it.
In general, Holland suggests, it’s best to vet guests beforehand and have the interviewer fact-check them as they leave.
Sani said that “DOAC” is not a news program and will not present itself as a news program. At the same time, he added, the show also has a responsibility to the audience.
Sani said his team is working to improve the fact-checking process and expand its scope based on audience feedback. For example, some viewers said pop-ups disappeared too quickly or there were too many pop-ups.
The team uses the artificial intelligence research platform Consensus in the fact-checking process and is exploring the use of the on-screen visual feature Consensus Meter.
Figuring out how to present the same message on audio as on video without disrupting the listening experience is another hurdle. Now, listeners can access the research document, but without the same message as the pop-up window.
Michael Breus is a famous sleep researcher. Helen Healy/NBC via Getty Images
Pop-up challenges guests with drug and science claims
“DOAC” has ample opportunity to fact-check. Bartlett recently interviewed neuroscientist and podcaster Andrew Huberman, who has been criticized for promoting unapproved treatments.
Throughout the interview, which has been viewed more than 8 million times, there are occasional pop-ups questioning Huberman’s medical claims, particularly regarding peptides and weight-loss drugs.
Huberman said his sleep improved after taking pinealin. A 20-second pop-up window appeared that read, in part, “Evidence from human clinical studies remains limited.”
Another pop-up read in part: “There has been a surge of interest in peptides, especially for weight loss and skin health, but many marketed products are not FDA-approved and lack strong evidence from human clinical trials.”
When Huberman called the weight-loss drug retarglutide “amazing” and said people taking it had lost about a third of their weight, a pop-up warned that the drug was still under investigation and had not yet been approved by the FDA.
In a show hosted by sleep expert Michael Breus, which has been viewed 13 million times, Breus stated that 75% of insomnia is caused by anxiety and depression. Research doctors say there are many causes of insomnia.
When aging researcher David Sinclair recommended eating a Brazil nut a day to supplement selenium, a pop-up warned that overdose could lead to toxicity.
“There’s a tension between inviting a provocative guest and providing the most accurate information possible,” Sani said. “We always tend to be as accurate as possible. We’re not journalists. None of us are news and don’t claim to be.”